Editing Incubator escapee wiki:MediaWiki messages/Archive 4 (section)

== Changing some link names ==

What does everybody think of changing:
* "my talk" to "talk" (a bit iffy)
* "my watchlist" to "watchlist"
* "my contributions" to "contributions" (a bit iffy as well)
in the bar at the top (in MonoBook) as they seem redundant to me and they are taking too much space (plus I hate this MS trend). [[User:Dori|Dori]] | [[User talk:Dori|Talk]] 19:09, Jun 9, 2004 (UTC)

* Support "my watchlist" -> "watchlist". Changing "wy watchlist" to "watchlist" is a good idea IMO, as it's similar to "preferences": you only ever deal with your own. On the other hand, "my contributions" is useful in distinction to "user contributions", and "my talk" probably helps distinguish article "discussions" for new users; your "iffys" suggest you've had similar thoughts... [[User:Matt Crypto|&mdash; Matt]] 22:13, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
*I support the watchlist one.  The other two, as you said, are a bit iffy.  So it'd be best to leave them as is.  [[User:Blankfaze|blankfaze]] | [[User Talk:blankfaze|??]] 23:21, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
*Change 'em all. And not just in Monobook: My Watchlist and My Contribs appear in Standard, too. Death to cutesy-poo interfacing! ''My'' opinion, [[User:Hajor|&ndash;''Hajor'']] 23:45, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
*Just "watchlist".  It may just be my own cynicism, but I imagine that the "My" helps some users distinguish between their own User talk: and that page's Talk:, and between their own contributions page and those of others. - [[User:Jredmond|jredmond]] 02:16, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
*Leave well alone. They shouldn't overlap anything else AFAICT: they sit ''above'' the page tabs. How narrow is your screen? --[[User:Phil Boswell|Phil]] | [[User talk:Phil Boswell|Talk]] 08:34, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)
* Lose the "my" from them all. They appear in a row after your username. The fact that the row starts with my username makes it obvious that all those functions relate to ''my'' things, so I'd have thought it would be perfectly obvious without "my this" and "my that" [[User:Tjwood|Tjwood]] 13:32, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
* The "my" sucks. Sucks hard. End of story. What are we trying to be? An encyclopedia? Or a cutse-pie kiddy-club?  [[User:Tannin|Tannin]] 15:54, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

From what I gather, most people wouldn't have a problem with changing "my watchlist". Yes, for the other two, there is a concern that some people may confuse it with other page's talk, and other people's contributions. However, as has been pointed out, these are on a place all by themselves. Perhaps we can convince Gwicke to put some character in there to reinforce this (something like <tt>User:</tt> or <tt>User ---</tt> ), would this be enough to alleviate those concerns? [[User:Dori|Dori]] | [[User talk:Dori|Talk]] 16:51, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)
*Seconded: just as WP isn't paper it isn't M$ either ... When we write/edit an article we all (should?!) choose our words carefully for meaning, so we should on links. Actually "Edit this page" could also be reduced to just "Edit page" IMHO. --[[User:VampWillow|VampWillow]] 22:56, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

:OK, I've changed "My watchlist" to "watchlist]], I'm not sure there is enough support for the other two. Should we hold a vote? (p.s. sorry for the delay, I was on a wikivacation). [[User:Dori|Dori]] | [[User talk:Dori|Talk]] 15:31, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

I'm using ''standard'' (damn me) but I foresee getting confused if I'm at another user's page and want to see ''his'' contributions.  Also, I think it's more newbie friendly, and I like the view that WP tailor for the newbie rather than the regular attendee. --[[User:Bodnotbod|bodnotbod]] 00:03, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

I don't like this as it is now.  I have "My talk, Preferences, Watchlist, My contributions"&mdash;it seems a little inconsistent. [[User:Lady Lysine Ikinsile|&mdash;''Lady Lysi&#0331;e Iki&#0331;sile'']] | [[User talk:Lady Lysine Ikinsile|Talk]] 17:35, 2004 Jun 28 (UTC)

Please keep the "my", it is important to highlight functionality that is specific to the logged in user.--[[User:Eloquence|Eloquence]][[User:Eloquence/CP|*]]

:Most of those who commented here disagree. It's pretty obvious that those links apply to only the logged in user IMO, perhaps the design can better reflect that, but I really hate this trend MS has started. [[User:Dori|Dori]] | [[User talk:Dori|Talk]] 23:53, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

::I don't think it's obvious at all, even I had to adjust between "My contributions" and "User contributions" when the new skin went live, for example, and many people have asked in the past if it is possible to view other people's watchlist, so that concept is also non-obvious. Some people are guided by the user icon, but more text-centric people will rely on the actual text telling them what that function does, and "My watchlist" is simply more specific than just "Watchlist". It's not about being cute, it's about giving more information to the user to help them navigate our website. Long-time users are often the worst possible judges of usability; if you want to know if this is helpful, you have to do a usability study with first-timers and ask them if they have any idea what these links could mean.--[[User:Eloquence|Eloquence]][[User:Eloquence/CP|*]]

:::It's been said before, but all interfaces ('cept one :) have to be learned. Sticking My in front of everything doesn't do that. You still have to know what a watchlist is. And as soon as you learn that, you know that there is just one. Sure there has been talk about seeing others' watchlists, but that's such a big privacy concern that it won't happen. I wonder how many new users as you say have heard of the talk about accessing other people's watchlists. [[User:Dori|Dori]] | [[User talk:Dori|Talk]] 00:03, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

::::You still have to know what exactly a watchlist is, and you still have to know what a contributions list is, but the "my" is additional information - it gives you a more concrete, if still vague idea: The watchlist is something that ''I'' can compile, the contributions list apparently lists everything ''I've'' done here, etc. Your argument seems to be that since the "My" doesn't ''precisely'' explain what a watchlist is, it is unnecessary. But that is not its purpose.

:::: To polemicize, why not just call it "list" and "contris"? After all, you have to click on it to figure out what it does anyway. ;-) I object to the characterization of the my as a purely "cutesy" thing. I should point out that I first introduced these labels during a restructuring of the sidebar of the Standard skin (I also came up with the idea of having a "My contributions" link in the first place). Having these prefixes aids in the logical separation of user-specific and user-nonspecific links. That is their only purpose, but I think they serve it reasonably well.--[[User:Eloquence|Eloquence]][[User:Eloquence/CP|*]]

:::::Maybe initially that My helps, but later on the brain just skips it because it's the same as in all the other links up there (well, some of them, they should either all have My or even better none of them). That My just gets in the way, as the brain will work mostly on location, with the shape of the words helping it along the way. So yes, list and contris will work just as well, but they don't look as good. [[User:Dori|Dori]] | [[User talk:Dori|Talk]] 01:06, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)