Editing Mathcore (section)

=== Precedents (1980s to early 1990s) ===
Early antecedents to mathcore were practiced by [[post-hardcore]] bands of the 1980s and early 1990s. Post-hardcore is a broad term to define bands that maintain the aggressiveness and intensity of hardcore punk but emphasizes a greater degree of creative expression. Hardcore punk pioneers [[Black Flag (band)|Black Flag]] incorporated characteristics reminiscent to mathcore during their mid-1980s experimental period, including [[heavy metal music|heavy metal]] laden riffs and lengthy songs, as well as [[jazz fusion|fusion]]-style time signatures, [[polyrhythms]], instrumental songs and improvisational sections.<ref name="American Hardcore 2001, p. 66">[[Steven Blush]], ''[[American Hardcore: A Tribal History]]'', "Thirsty and Miserable", Los Angeles: [[Feral House]], 2001, p. 66</ref><ref name=ginn>{{cite web|url=http://www.heavymetalbebop.com/post/41782901627/9-greg-ginn|title=#9: GREG GINN|first=Hank|last=Shteamer|date=July 2012|website=www.heavymetalbebop.com|location=Manhattan, New York City|access-date=February 15, 2017|url-status=live|archive-url=https://archive.today/20171124014716/http://www.heavymetalbebop.com/post/41782901627/9-greg-ginn|archive-date=November 24, 2017}}</ref> At that time, their biggest influences were the [[Mahavishnu Orchestra]] and [[King Crimson]] during its [[King Crimson#1972–1975: the "European improvisers" – Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Starless and Bible Black, Red, and hiatus|1972–1975 lineup]].<ref name=ginn/> Author [[Steven Blush]] said that their new direction "proved too much for many fans",<ref name="American Hardcore 2001, p. 66"/> yet numerous mathcore trailblazers would later credit Black Flag as an inspiration.<ref name=dazzling/><ref name=coalesce/><ref name=rorschach2>{{cite web|access-date=February 15, 2018|url=https://www.brooklynvegan.com/an-interview-w-16/|title=an interview w/ Charles Maggio of Rorschach (who are in the middle of their short run of reunion dates)|date=September 24, 2009|website=[[BrooklynVegan]]|url-status=dead|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20160502115213/http://www.brooklynvegan.com/an-interview-w-16/|archive-date=May 2, 2016}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|access-date=February 15, 2018|url=http://epitaph.com/news/article/converge-interview-with-singer-jake-bannon-from-at-both-ends|quote=[[Jacob Bannon]]: Our direct inspiration comes from bands like Black Flag ... |publication-date=October 27, 2004|date= October 16, 2004|first=Stephen |last=Fallis|publisher=[[Epitaph.com]]|title=Converge interview with singer Jake Bannon from At Both Ends.}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|access-date=February 15, 2018|url=http://www.lordsofmetal.nl/en/interviews/view/id/950|title=The Dillinger Escape Plan |first=Jasper|last=Hesselink|date=April 2005|website= www.lordsofmetal.nl|quote=[[Ben Weinman]]: When we first started playing in a band, we listened to a lot of bands ... even Black Flag and [[Dead Kennedys]], who had something to say and added some honest energy.|url-status=live|archive-url=https://archive.today/20171228152730/http://www.lordsofmetal.nl/en/interviews/view/id/950|archive-date=December 28, 2017}}</ref> Among others post-hardcore bands usually credited are [[Minutemen (band)|Minutemen]],<ref name=dazzling/><ref name=rorschach2/><ref>{{cite web|access-date=February 15, 2018|url=http://ghettoblastermagazine.com/brian-cook-russian-circles-on-minutemens-double-nickels-on-the-dime/|title=Brian Cook (Russian Circles) on Minutemen's Double Nickels on the Dime|date=June 27, 2012|website=Ghettoblastermagazine.com|first=Timothy|last=Anderl|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180215151817/http://ghettoblastermagazine.com/brian-cook-russian-circles-on-minutemens-double-nickels-on-the-dime/|archive-date=February 15, 2018}}</ref> who were heavily influenced by [[avant-garde rock]] and [[jazz]],<ref>{{cite web | access-date = February 17, 2018 | url = https://www.furious.com/perfect/mikewatt.html | title = Mike Watt interview | first = Jason | last = Gross | date = October 1997 | website = Furious.com | publisher = [[Perfect Sound Forever (magazine)|Perfect Sound Forever]] | url-status = dead | archive-url = https://web.archive.org/web/19990218112021/https://www.furious.com/perfect/mikewatt.html | archive-date = February 18, 1999 | df = mdy-all }}</ref> [[The Jesus Lizard]],<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.metalorgie.com/interviews/1630_Kurt-Ballou-Converge_English-interview-november-2017|access-date=February 15, 2018|title=Kurt Ballou (Converge) English interview, november 2017|publication-date=December 2017|date=November 2017|website=Metalorgie.com|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180215210706/http://www.metalorgie.com/interviews/1630_Kurt-Ballou-Converge_English-interview-november-2017|archive-date=February 15, 2018}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.metalnews.de/interviews/Jes+Steineger+von+Coalesce.618.html|access-date=February 15, 2018|title= .: INTERVIEWS :: Jes Steineger von Coalesce|website=Metalnews.de|language=de|first=Michael |last=Siegl |date=June 6, 2009 |url-status=dead|archive-url=https://archive.today/20180215205501/http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:b-3puG3ecOkJ:www.metalnews.de/interviews/Jes%2BSteineger%2Bvon%2BCoalesce.618.html|archive-date=February 15, 2018}}</ref><ref name=cook>{{cite web|access-date=February 15, 2018|url=https://www.avclub.com/with-we-are-the-romans-botch-helped-redefine-hardcore-1798253844|title=With We Are The Romans, Botch helped redefine hardcore|first=Kevin |last=Warwick|website=[[The A.V. Club]]|date=November 1, 2016|url-status=live|archive-date=November 15, 2017|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20171115083605/https://music.avclub.com/with-we-are-the-romans-botch-helped-redefine-hardcore-1798253844}}</ref> inspired by progressive rock,<ref>{{cite web|access-date=February 17, 2018|url=http://smithlahrman.blogspot.com/2012/01/interview-with-duane-denison-february-3.html|title=Interview with Duane Denison, February 3, 1993 |location=Chicago, Illinois|first=Matthew |last=Smith-Lahrman |publication-date=January 30, 2012|date=February 3, 1993|website=Smithlahrman.blogspot.com|url-status=live|archive-date=February 17, 2018|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180217133353/http://smithlahrman.blogspot.com/2012/01/interview-with-duane-denison-february-3.html}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|access-date=February 17, 2018|url=http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12/11/cbs-sf-talks-to-the-jesus-lizard-drummer-mac-mcneilly-part-ii/|title=CBS SF Talks To The Jesus Lizard Drummer Mac McNeilly, Part II|date=December 11, 2017 |first=Dave |last=Pehling|location=San Francisco, California|website=[[KPIX-TV]]}}</ref> [[Fugazi]],<ref name=coalesce/><ref name=cook_influences>{{cite web|access-date=February 18, 2018|url=http://nowxspinning.tumblr.com/post/67775340768/interview-68-brian-cook-of-botch-russian|title=Interview #68 /// Brian Cook of Botch / Russian Circles |date=November 22, 2013|website= Nowxspinning.tumblr.com|url-status=live|archive-date=February 18, 2018|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20180218122856/http://nowxspinning.tumblr.com/post/67775340768/interview-68-brian-cook-of-botch-russian}}</ref>{{sfn|Farris|2011|loc=1:36:13}}<ref>{{ cite web | access-date = February 21, 2017 | url = https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/interviews/converge_the_best_way_to_learn_is_just_start_doing_it.html | title = Converge: 'The Best Way To Learn Is Just Start Doing It' | date = February 19, 2008 | first = Carlos | last = Ramirez | website = [[Ultimate Guitar Archive]] | url-status = live | archive-date = June 16, 2017 | archive-url = https://archive.today/20170616142041/https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/interviews/converge_the_best_way_to_learn_is_just_start_doing_it.html | df = mdy-all }}</ref> and [[Drive Like Jehu]],<ref name=coalesce/><ref name=cook/><ref>{{cite web|access-date=February 15, 2018|url=https://www.vice.com/en/article/rank-your-records-converge-jacob-bannon/|title=Rank Your Records: Converge's Jacob Bannon Reflects on the Seminal Hardcore Band's Eight Albums|first=David |last=Anthony|date=June 15, 2017|website=[[Noisey]]|url-status=live|archive-date=February 15, 2018|archive-url=https://archive.today/20180215214402/https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/ywzqbw/rank-your-records-converge-jacob-bannon}}</ref>{{sfn|Farris|2011|loc=1:28:28}} who drew from [[math rock]] and [[krautrock]].<ref>{{cite podcast| last = Khanna| first = Vish| url = http://vishkhanna.com/2015/10/08/ep-217-do-you-compute-the-story-of-drive-like-jehu/| title = Ep. #217: Do You Compute – The Story of Drive Like Jehu| publication-date = October 8, 2015| issue = 217| website = Vishkhanna.com| time = 34:19-34:35 ([[Mark Trombino]] on [[Bastro]] and [[Slint]]), 1:13:55-1:14:52 (Trombino on ''[[Spiderland]]''), 1:17:45-1:18:23 ([[John Reis]]'s influences) and 1:19:46-1:19:58 (Trombino on the band's influences)| access-date = February 16, 2018}}</ref>